Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

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Chapel
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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Chapel » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:30 pm

Yea, you have to be careful when using the argument that something acts like something else. There are lots of units that ignore difficult terrain because of Move Through Cover, yet they are still affected by that terrain when it comes to Initiative and assault.

Some specifically state that they treat terrain like it's open terrain, and yet still get penalized when assaulting through the terrain. As for the Imperial Knights, I suppose there should be some rule in the Knights Codex allowing them to step over terrain that is that short. Of course if it's a dense field of traps, say 6-8" deep then yea, it would make it difficult for the Knight to pick it's way through.

I'm still leaning towards the specifics in the Tank Trap rule that states they affect all non-skimmer vehicles.
I don't believe the intent of the "Moves Like Infantry" line in the walker entry was to circumvent tank traps, but to differentiate it's movement compared to vehicles which use speeds.

It states they move 6" in the movement phase, can run in the shooting phase, and can assault in the assault phase. I believe (yes this is my opinion) that the "They move like infantry" comment was only to distinguish that walkers do not move at Combat or Cruising speed, but instead "Move Like Infantry" and can assault (which other vehicles can not do). It doesn't reclassify them as infantry, just describes the way they move.

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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Adan » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:53 pm

Chapel wrote:I'm still leaning towards the specifics in the Tank Trap rule that states they affect all non-skimmer vehicles.
I don't believe the intent of the "Moves Like Infantry" line in the walker entry was to circumvent tank traps, but to differentiate it's movement compared to vehicles which use speeds.

It states they move 6" in the movement phase, can run in the shooting phase, and can assault in the assault phase. I believe (yes this is my opinion) that the "They move like infantry" comment was only to distinguish that walkers do not move at Combat or Cruising speed, but instead "Move Like Infantry" and can assault (which other vehicles can not do). It doesn't reclassify them as infantry, just describes the way they move.
That's where I am at the moment as well.
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Loopy
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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Loopy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:54 am

Thanks for bringing this up. It's a very interesting case. If it were my tournament FAQ, I'd make the Narrative Ruling of the bloody walker steps OVER the tank trap. Treating it like infantry for this purpose seems like the way I'd go, personally. I'll be shooting this ruling past my players.

RAW?

The chain of generic to specific is very weedy here. Is it...

Vehicle < Terrain < Tank Traps < Walker (Infantry)

or is it

Vehicle < Terrain < Walker (infantry) < Tank Traps

Interesting conversation.
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Incarnet
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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Incarnet » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:01 pm

Loopy wrote:Thanks for bringing this up. It's a very interesting case. If it were my tournament FAQ, I'd make the Narrative Ruling of the bloody walker steps OVER the tank trap. Treating it like infantry for this purpose seems like the way I'd go, personally.
I would go the opposite way for the same reason. Most of the models of tank traps I own are about as a tall as a space marine. The way a dreadnought is modeled it would be impossible for it to step over.

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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Loopy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:54 am

It's not much higher than an Aegis Defense Line. I can see your argument with the silly, stubby Space Marine Dreadnoughts (whose actual scale is dubious, actually), but things like Imperial Knights in particular are ridiculous to cordon off with these things from a narrative standpoint.
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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Anubis1028 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:39 am

I'd have to lean towards counting them as being effective against walkers. Walkers move as infantry per RAW but the size differential between actual infantry models and walkers is going to change the reasoning behind why they're counted as such. In a campaign that I would run, I would count them as effective against walkers but a Knight could stride over them (unless we're talking about a FIELD of them as opposed to a single row).

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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Loopy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:33 pm

Many walkers also have hands... or arms. Another thing to think about. I just don't see it being a problem for them from a lot of perspectives.
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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Incarnet » Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:24 am

Loopy wrote:Many walkers also have hands... or arms. Another thing to think about. I just don't see it being a problem for them from a lot of perspectives.
At that point we are talking about the mechanics of moving an object with a rather loose connection with reality.

In any case, and barring a faq, in the end it's going to be about what seems appropriate to each individual group or TO. For my group they will always be at least difficult.

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Re: Tank Traps & Walkers -- BRB pages 109 & 90

Post by Thaldin » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:22 am

Think about the AT-STs from Star Wars, Return of the Jedi... walkers... in all instances they moved like 'infantry', but as soon as something got under their feet, the stumbled and fell. House rule it, not impossible but dangerous terrain ?

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