Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpents

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Sadclown
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Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpents

Post by Sadclown » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:45 am

I got started in 40K in January, had three armies painted, but I hated how they looked and started over in June. So far I have enough Grey Knights painted to run a Draigowing if I proxy in my Black Templar Dreadnought and Hellbrute as psyflemen. I have played two games. I lost the first due to poor deployment and won the second. The all-stars of the game were the psyflemen and a full kitted out Dreadknight.

This is the list I used:
HQ
Draigo
Ordo Malleus Inquistor - terminator armor; demon hammer; psycannon; psyker 1 (divination)

Troops
10 Paladins - 4 psycannons; psybolt ammo; brotherhood banner; 7 halberds; 2 hammers
1 paladin
1 Paladin

Heavy Support
Psyfleman
Psyfleman
Nemesis Dreadknight - heavy psycannon; heavy incinerator; great sword; teleporter

While the Psyfleman did great cracking open Rhinos, and the Dreadknight destroyed two units of crusaders, and almost took out a third, I am concerned about facing wave serpent spam.

I was thinking about the following:
Draigo

Elites
Venerable Psyfleman

Troops
10 Paladins - 4 psycannons; psybolt ammo
paladin
paladin
paladin
paladin

Heavy Support
Psyfleman
Psyfleman
Psyfleman

The idea is to castle up in one corner and use terrain and range to limit the number of wave serpents that can shoot at my army. Are the 16 strength 8 shots enough to glance to death:
1. 2 - 3 stationary wave serpents per turn;
2. 2 - 3 wave serpents with a 5+ cover save:
3. 1 - 2 wave serpents with a 4+ cover save; and
4. 1 - 2 wave serpens with a 3+ cover save?

Additionally, I am considering keeping the Dreadknight. Would 12 strength 8 shots be enough to glance to death two wave serpents per turn?

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cicero
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by cicero » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:59 am

Running the numbers 12 shots is giving you 3.6 hull points per turn of shooting, so you aren't glancing them out on average. However, out of those you are getting 2.4 pens which corresponds to an extra 0.4 kills a turn, which is not too bad.

It's worth that there is no significant difference between dual auto cannons and auto/lasin this case (you are losing 9% efficiency) but you are gaining the ability to pen av14 which is nice.
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Loopy
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by Loopy » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:44 am

4 shots at BS4 is 2 and 2/3 hits.
Twin-linked it is +.88 more for a total of 3.55 hits.

You will glance on a 4 and pen on a 5 or 6.

That is 0.59 glances and 1.185 pens.

Here we diverge. Assuming that they have a 4+ cover save which is the minimum they should be able to claim from a stationary unit like the dread, this goes down to....

0.29 glances and 0.59 pens.

If the serpent shield is active, that makes it...

0.78 glances and about 0.10 pens.

It gets extremely miserable if they can claim a 3+ or a 2+ save.

Shooting wave serpents is not in the cards. They must be assaulted or shot with Ignores Cover. Make use of Divination if possible.
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Sadclown
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by Sadclown » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:08 pm

Thanks for the number crunching.

How in the world are you going to catch Wave sepents in assault with anything other than bikes?

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cicero
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by cicero » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:34 pm

Loopy wrote:4 shots at BS4 is 2 and 2/3 hits.
Twin-linked it is +.88 more for a total of 3.55 hits.

You will glance on a 4 and pen on a 5 or 6.

That is 0.59 glances and 1.185 pens.

Here we diverge. Assuming that they have a 4+ cover save which is the minimum they should be able to claim from a stationary unit like the dread, this goes down to....

0.29 glances and 0.59 pens.

If the serpent shield is active, that makes it...

0.78 glances and about 0.10 pens.

It gets extremely miserable if they can claim a 3+ or a 2+ save.

Shooting wave serpents is not in the cards. They must be assaulted or shot with Ignores Cover. Make use of Divination if possible.

I was assuming a standard 5+ junk save should have mentioned that...
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Loopy
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by Loopy » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:48 pm

I play orks. I fill the table with vehicles and pray. Also, drop pods. Sometimes. As long as your marine army isn't too elite. Grey knights are VERY elite much of the time. Id need to brainstorm more to figure out how to do it with GK.

But Divination and Psycannons I think are what you are really looking for as a solution. Or monkeys with lascannons with divination.
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by Tuatara » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:02 am

Loopy wrote:But Divination and Psycannons I think are what you are really looking for as a solution.
I love using a Purgation squad of 5 with 4 psycannons. If they stand still, that's 16 strength 7 shots. Against an AV12 Wave Serpent, that's 1.78 glances and 1.78 pens. That goes up to 2.37 glances and 2.37 pens if you have divination on them. That's pretty handy, and fun.

Given the Psycannon has rending, you have an outside chance of killing AV14 as well (2.37 glances or pens with divination).
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by Loopy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:26 am

I'd completely forgotten about the Purgation Squad. Phenomenal idea. These days I might go 10 men in a Rhino rather than 6 in a Razorback, though, since they're going to be so important to the list. Maybe two squads.
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by Loopy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:31 am

Wait, though. I know they can shoot through walls, but do they actually have Ignores Cover?
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Sadclown
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Re: Need some Mathhammer for Psyflemen shooting Wave Serpent

Post by Sadclown » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:00 am

How would you get the purgation squad in place to do any damage, or would you use it as a denial squad?

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