Playing the Grey Knights in 6th Edition

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MasterCraft
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Re: Playing the Grey Knights in 6th Edition

Post by MasterCraft » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:26 am

With the old codex I used to run smaller squads in Land Raiders (I love land raiders). How ever the growing number of necron players has influenced to use only one Land Raider per game- if I use one at all.
You know what I find works pretty well, although I haven't played against Necrons, I've started putting my LR Crusader in reserve (usually with a squad of purifiers) and added a Callidus assassin to my list. The hope is either the Callidus comes in first or they come in together and I usually place the Callidus by the LR's threats. This works pretty well as any high strength firing units hang back, Callidus pops up, they suffer the initial D6 hits (AP2) then the template weapon.

Skip
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Re: Playing the Grey Knights in 6th Edition

Post by Skip » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:12 pm

MasterCraft wrote:You know what I find works pretty well, although I haven't played against Necrons, I've started putting my LR Crusader in reserve (usually with a squad of purifiers) and added a Callidus assassin to my list. The hope is either the Callidus comes in first or they come in together and I usually place the Callidus by the LR's threats. This works pretty well as any high strength firing units hang back, Callidus pops up, they suffer the initial D6 hits (AP2) then the template weapon.
That sounds like an awesome combination- something that be especially powerful against static shooting units- such as Oblits and Devastators. I may have to give that a shot/ play around with some pts. I'm not fully settled on anything just yet- although I am starting to become a big fan of the Nemesis Dread Knight.

I got in another game this past evening against the same Ork player that I went up against last week.

I didn't get a copy of his list but he had the following:
2x Big Meks with Shokk attack guns
2x Battlewagons
2x Max groups of Lootaz
1x blob squad of Grotz
2x Groups of 20 boyz- one group shootaz and the other the CC ones
2x Groups of 12 Boyz in the Trukks
3x War Buggies with Missiles
Several Ork Dreads
2x Looted Tanks with the Big Kannon thingie

I took the second list shown above- with Mordak.

I did not take a blow by blow of the entire battle- so I have some summaries and pictures below:

Deployment - I won the roll to go first- and let him deploy his forces first. I liked the ability to react to his deployment- keeping the majority of my forces away from his big squad of Lootaz holding up in the tower. This basically negated a big portion of his shooting from the get go. It also allowed me to concentrate my entire army on one section of his army. I then promptly rolled a six to seize the initiative- Ave Imperator! I get the feeling that with a smaller army- I should try to opt for taking the second turn, to better allow for my army to better react to the enemy's positions.

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Unit Performances - I have a few of the stand out units that I saw from the game today:

Mordrak- I love this unit. He deep struck down right behind an objective/ 20 Ork Slugga Boyz and was able to kill a couple of them in shooting (didn't do so hot here)- but was able to clear out nearly another ten in close combat. I did end up loosing all of the Ghost knights- but Mordrak stood firm against 5 orks in the end. I can see some major weaknesses in this unit though- without some better invulnerable saves, especially on Modrack...it leaves him very vulnerable to power fists, hammers and klaws. I feel that the whole unit would have been lost if it wasn't for the Dread Knight coming in and saving the day. Having some type of support to back up Mordrak- or at least capitalize on his efforts in the back is essential to success (a one-two punch).

Before-
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After-
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DreadKnight- I love this unit. In fact I have an unhealthy love for the DreadKnight at the moment. It killed seven entire units of his army- and tied up the last remnants of his list from doing anything productive. Being able to jump the 30'- basically into the enemy's deployment zone on turn one/ two- is huge. The flame thrower was able to kill an average of 5 orks a turn- and at least four orks a turn with the sword (re-rolls are awesome). Basically deleting ten orks in the assault phase is great- but the unit can get bogged down easily by a horde unit. The DK also is fantastic with dealing with enemy walkers and tanks- with the at initiative str 10 hits. The one model was able to take down several Ork Dreadnoughts and a group of three mega nobz- and few other things- but if it runs into a bigger squad of power klaws things can go south quickly.

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I ended up winning the game (it was Dawn of War Deployment/ Big Guns Never Tire). I was able to get the First Blood after Seizing the Initiative- captured one objective, killed the Warlord, took out a few heavy supports and captured an objective. I think I just got really lucky overall- especially when his two Shokk attack guns rolled a ten on their chart and threw themselves directly into the waiting weapons of Grey Knights. That and my dice did not try to actively kill me...which was fantastic.

The Dead Piles:
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I'm trying to think of changing up my list against. I liked the strike squads and dreadnoughts- but the strike squads I feel are a bit fragile. There are a few issues with Mordrak too.......


List three- We put armor on your armor
Head Quarters
- Grey Knights Librarian- Level 3 Psyker -Warlord

Elites
- Vindicare Assassin

Troops
- 10x Grey Knight Terminators- Justicar with a Staff/ 2x Daemon Hammers/ 2x Psycannons/ Rest with Halberds
- 7x Grey Knight Terminators- Justicar with a Staff/ 2x Daemon Hammers/ 1x Psycannons/ Rest with Halberds

Heavy Support
- Dread Knight- Telaporter/ Heavy Incinerator/ Sword
- Dread Knight- Telaporter/ Heavy Incinerator/ Sword
- Grey Knight Dreadnought with 2x Twin-Linked Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo

Comes to 1835/1850 points

Tactics- Keep the Terminators back with the Dreadnought- to maximize the 12' psychic protection (enemy psykers have to roll -4 their ldr when attacking the GK's with psykers) as the Dread Knights jump forward and do their thing.

As always thank you for your time,

-Cease
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Skip
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:37 pm
Location: Mechanicville, NY

Re: Playing the Grey Knights in 6th Edition

Post by Skip » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:16 pm

I was able to play a few more games using a new Grey Knight list at a local tournament over the weekend, as well as a practice game against Loopy & his orks.

I tried to make a fun- not really fluff driven list- but something that would be fun to play and wouldn’t be the “auto-win” Grey Knights list…turns out I think I may have stumbled onto something big here….

I took the following list:
List Four- The Skip-Lantic Ocean

Head Quarters
- Grey Knights Librarian- Level 3 Psyker -Warlord
With Psybolt ammo & Warding Staff
Elites
- Vindicare Assassin

Troops
- 10x Grey Knight Terminators- Justicar with a Staff/ 2x Daemon Hammers/ 2x Psycannons/ Rest with Halberds with Psybolt ammo
- 5x Grey Knights- Strike Squad- All with swords and one Psycannon in a Razorback with Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter with Psybolt ammo
- 5x Grey Knights- Strike Squad- All with swords and one Psycannon in a Razorback with Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter with Psybolt ammo

Heavy Support
- Dread Knight- Telaporter/ Heavy Incinerator/ Sword
- Dread Knight- Telaporter/ Heavy Incinerator/ Sword
- Grey Knight Dreadnought with 2x Twin-Linked Autocannons and Psybolt Ammo

1850/1850 points

List Strategy-
Deep Strike Denial: I took the two strike squads to deny my opponents the ability to deepstrike directly in my army's face (and of course to score objectives as need be). I figured that I would need a little bit of breathing room to prevent my Dread Knights from getting taken down by melta and plasma guns being fired up close en mass. I hoped that any deep striking terminators/ demons would be far enough away to allow my terminators/ razorbacks to weaken them through shooting and the DK’s finish them off in assault.

Counter Attack: The biggest lesson that I learned from my earlier games with using a single Dread Knight is that I can use the jump pack ability to get into close combat from cover to about the center of the board (granted if I can get lucky on my assault rolls). I have to keep the DK's in close combat as much as possible- using challenges to keep power fists and klaws from cutting through the DK's +2 save. Counter attacking an enemy's vanguard units and then using my squad of terminators with the Librarian to clean up anything left by the DK's- or weakening larger units with psybolt fire.

Where my DK’s can get in trouble is using my shunt jump, kill a few models and then stand there as the entire army shoots into them, or assaults with multiple units with multiple powerfists/ ap 1 weapons.

Psychic Denial:: I am not 150% certain/ understand what various psychic abilities that the new Chaos demons and Chaos Space Marines have (I have not read their books) so I wanted to make sure that I had a way to help shut down enemy psychic powers on my army. I took the dakka dread for the reinforced aegis ability- which gives a 12’ bubble. In this bubble any enemy psychic powers take a -4 leadership for their psychic tests (most of the time folks will be casting on leadership 6!). It was also a dakka dread…and I love those things…especially against flyers.


Test Game-
The first game I tested out the list with was against Loopy’s Adepticon list. Basically his list was made up of two battlewagons, two dakka jets, Storm Boyz with the HQ dude, the Mad Doc, two groups of lobbaz, some ard’ boyz, a group of grotz and shoota boyz. We played one the Adepticon missions- Big Guns Never Tire- with 5 Objectives and Dawn of War Deployment.

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Strategy- I knew going into the game that Loopy is one heck of a 40k player and knows his codex inside and out. I decided to give him the first turn and deployed refused flank against his army- opposite the big unit of shoota boyz. I wanted to use my warp quake ability (with the two strike squads) to keep his Storm Boyz out of range for the assault. My goal was to get him to go mid-field and then use my DK’s to engage one unit as my terminators and weight of mid-ranged fire hopefully obliterated whatever else was in the mid-range.

Outcome- I was successfully in first seizing the initiative against him and then claiming the First Blood by blowing up Mad Doc’s battlewagon (Thank you Vindicare Assassin). I kept everything back for two turns when my warp quake failed (thankfully- no perils!). The Storm Boyz jumped in and killed a razorback. The Terminators were able to deal with them- as the two Dk’s jumped forward. One DK assaulted Mad Doc and his squad while the other assaulted the shoota boyz. Using challenges I was able to kill Mad Doc and run down the Mega Nobz when they failed their leadership (I think we may have gotten this rule wrong- I’m starting to think that challenges don’t affect combat resolution maybe….I think?). The second DK challenged out the knob in the shoota boyz squad and got stuck into assault

The two DK’s through bad rolls on Loopy’s part were successful in killing off the majority of his ork boyz as my terminators moved forward to assault the remainder as they were locked in combat with the DK’s. My remaining razorback and dread laid own a bit of fire onto his other units, weakening them before the assaults. I ended up winning the game, but it could have gone very wrong for me at several key points if his rolls were a bit better.

Lessons- Challenges are lame- but they take away the big weakness DK’s have in close combat- the sergeant with a power fist or axe. The biggest thing I learned walking away from the game was my DK’s have to work with another unit for support. I had them split up at one point and I lost a few wounds on them- and I had to get my terminators to bail one out when it was a bit surrounded by orks. I started to come with the idea of the DK’s charging forward- weakening units and tying up hordes as my Terminators and the rest of my army moved up- and helped to clear the field.

Also I started to realize that this “fun” list may not have been as fun as I was thinking it was...and that I may be a bad person.
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Da Tournament-

Game One- Space Wolves
His List- 2 Rune Priests, 3x squads of Grey Hunters? In Rhinos with a variety of weapons (plasma/ what not), , a group of 5 Thunder Wolves- all with storm shields and two squads of long fangs with missile launchers and an aegis defense line with lascannon.

Deployment was Hammer & Anvil/ Game was the Relic.

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Summary- His shooting was awesome against my Terminators- which were the focus his rage for several turns. He managed to nearly wipe out the ten manned squad in two turns of shooting from his long fangs. It also didn’t help that I was rolling 1’s 50% of the time with my dice rolls. He charged his Thunder wolves directly into the face of my terminators- getting them stuck in a combat for a turn. He also managed to kill my librarian in a challenge when on two wounds I promptly rolled two ones. I was really having a hard time against his army at the start, and it really looked like I was going to lose it big time from the start. I had my DK’s jump in and finish off the combat- then jumped forward to start dealing with the grey hunter squads left out in the open from exploding Rhinos- which is where things started to go my way a bit more.

I was eventually able to grind down his 30 Grey Hunters through shooting and assaults between the two DK’s and surviving terminators. The Terminators held the relic and used one his destroyed rhinos for cover to hide from the two squads of long fangs. The two DK’s split up again- going after the two squads of Long Fangs at once. One DK was finally taken down by a lucky snap shot on his way into assault while the other casually ripped up a Long Fang squad. The second DK was finally brought down by a lucky hit in assault with the second squad of long fangs.

Result- I ended up getting first blood, slay the warlord and the Relic objective. This netted me 15 out of 20 points for the first round.

Dead piles- At the close of the game he had two long fangs, his aegis and two immobilized rhinos with one hull pt. each left on the board. I lost two Dread Knights, a Razorback, the Librarian, 7x terminators and my Vindicare

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Game Two- Space Wolves
His List- 1x Rune Priest, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf, 3x squads of long fangs- two with all missile launchers and one with one plasma gun and four lascannons, 2x squads of 5x grey hunters in twin-linked lascannon razorbacks, another squad of 5x grey hunters and two big squads of thunder wolfs with 5 wolfs in each and one thunder hammer/ storm shield in the squad.

Deployment was Vanguard/ Game was Emperor’s will (the new auto-tie mission)

Summary- I let him take the first turn- and deployed hiding primarily behind a ruined cathedral. I waited two turns for his two big squads of Thunder wolves to move forward. I was able to take down the one on my left flank from concentrated shooting, with the other was taken apart by my Dread Knights. My DK’s weathered his shooting, losing almost all of their wounds (darn you lascannons!). In my turn they took apart the rune priest and his squad- before losing one to his next shooting phase, but by then the long fangs and his objective were well within assault range of the remaining DK.

The last DK survived the rest of his shooting to assault the last of his army on the objective- killing off a squad of long fangs and his last scoring unit in two turns. As his army attempted to deal with the DK my Terminators moved up- and killed off another squad of long fangs and nearly wiped the second unit from shooting. Catching his forces in a pincer move- and put a lot of pressure on his remaining units. His biggest mistake was that he didn’t concentrate fire on one target at a time. Instead he tried to shoot at everything at once, but didn’t kill anything as a result. It would have a MUCH different game if he concentrated his shots at my remaining DK.

Result- I ended up scoring my objective, but failed to take his. I also managed to take down his warlord, first blood and line breaker. This scored me a total of 18 /20 points for the round.

Dead piles- I had lost one Dread Knight (my second one only had one wound left!), a razorback and a vindicare assassin. He had two long fang models left.

It was at this point I really started to think that I may have accidently taken a jerk list.

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Game Three- Orks…da rematch against Loopy
His List- 2x Weird Boyz, 3x dakka jets, 2x groups of Lootaz, 2x shoota boyz squads of 30 boyz each, 2x squads of Lobbaz, an aegis defense line with comms array, a battlewagon with shootaz and missiles and a squad of mega nobz.

Deployment was Dawn of War/ Game was Purge the Alien (I liked the title!)

Summary- I won the roll and graciously, being a fair and a good opponent allowed Loopy to take the first turn. He set up his army bunched up towards his own table edge and set his aegis defense line (during terrain deployment) along the edge of his deployment zone. This was an awesome strategy on his part- because all of my shooting had to go over that cover. I deployed once again- on the flank- with the two DK’s on the right flank, and the rest of the army just to the left near some ruins.

I then made eye contact with Loopy- informed him that I was going to seize the initiative…rolled the dice. It bounced several times on the table- before finally setting on a………..six. For the fourth game in a row against orks I have stolen the initiative. I’m a jerk.

I immediately had my two DK’s warp shunt 30’ inches just to the side of one of the squads of lootaz. I declared my primary target was the shoota boyz- burning 13 of them, and killing three lootaz caught under the template. The second DK did the same, killing another score of Lootaz and shoota boyz. He didn’t spread out his units because he had the first turn- so instead of killing three or four boyz a flame template; I nearly burned the entire squad. The Lootaz fell back off of the table edge after failing their morale test, but the boyz stayed.

Basically the two DK’s chewed up the flank of his army- killing the mega knobz and one squad of lobbaz in turn two (I had to take down the extra power klaws- because he would have charged them and the other shoota boyz in the next round), then the second squad of shoota boyz in turn three. His poor rolls meant that despite what he threw at the two DK’s- he just couldn’t do anything to bring them down. He did manage to take own down in an assault with the second shoota boyz squad, but by then the Terminators were well within range of their storm bolters and were over the aegis defense line he had placed- with a clear line of site.
The dakka jets were the shooting beasts I figured they would be- but with the armor 2 on the DK’s- they just weathered almost all of the shots. He did manage to take down the two razorbacks with them. Except my dakka dread was on the ball- taking down one flyer in turn four, and putting another few hull points on another. The biggest thing that kills dakka jets though still is a squad of GK’s with psycannons and the re-roll power from divination.

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Results- I scored the full 20 points due to the difference in kill points. Loopy did however; kill the most of army during the tournament. He accounted for half of the terminators, both razorbacks, a Dread Knight, the second one had two wounds left, and my vindicare assassin. I feel that the biggest things that got me the win in this game was the seizing of the initiative and my lucky roll to get the charge on his mega knobz. If I hadn’t done those two things- he could have very well shot me off of the table.

Tournament Results- Second place. I missed first place by a single point. I had not played in a singles tournament since the summer- so it was sorta nice to come back in my event- and nearly win it after a few months. I also played three good games- which made the afternoon far more enjoyable than playing rules lawyers/ and what not.

Thoughts- I had a lot of fun at the event and every game I got in involved a lot of laughing/ general shanagins and smack talk. However, I did feel like a bit of a jerk during my last game in particular- which is not something that I like to feel. I took the list to have fun, but because of the match ups that I ended up with (If I played against the DE poison spam list, or one of the two ppl with the 9 oblit/ 2x hell drake list- I would have lost- BIG time). The issue is that the armies I went against just didn't have a good answer for the Dread Knights other than shooting everything they could into them.

The other big issue I feel is that I took a very small army. My opponents didn't kill a lot of it- with most of their armies getting wiped (I never tabled anyone). This was very frustrating, especially against my second round opponent- when ten models cannot take down even one model running around the backfield. I think that I will end up changing up my list again soon- to something not with dual Dread Knights- maybe with just as many GK’s I can get to fit on the table. Something more fun for my opponent (I tend to have a lot more fun personally when the game is either very-very close or I lose- I just want my opponent to leave the table having a good time).

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Thoughts on the event- I love the store up north and in the recent few months they have had a concerted effort on getting the tables and terrain painted up for their events (store owner is awesome too). The result this time around was that despite being a smaller store- all 14 players had good tables with nearly finished terrain to play against. Moving to 1850 pts instead of 2k meant that all but one game throughout the entire event finished with time to spare.
However, I still would really like to see mild soft scores (painting/ sportsmanship scores) included in the event. Last time this was attempted to be implemented over the summer folks stormed out of the store swearing they would never play again (they all came back)/ one person literally cried….so I have no idea how this would ever be implemented. I’m just not a fan of seeing the same grey AoBR marines missing bolters counting as Space Wolves. You know- those same models that were once used for GK’s, or BA’s, or regular marines, or SW’s and DA’s in events past.


I’m off to look through my codex and see what things I can take other than Dread Knights now….I hope to be successful in finding something that can both be a bit competitive, but help to give my opponents a better game of 40k (so I don’t feel like a jerk…).

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Loopy wrote:I weep for the stars that were born and died to make the elements necessary to create the paint you smeared across your models.
Proud member of the fabled Team Battlepouch

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