Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

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MasterCraft
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Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by MasterCraft » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:39 am

So finally I have some Grey Knights painted. Enough for a small 1000 point game. Not only am I just getting back into the game but I've also never played anything but vanilla marines. GKs are my baby steps. Basically my list represents all the models I have painted therefore there is no room for swapping models however I can adjust minor points. My opponent tends to be warrior heavy with some gene stealers, possibly a brood lord, 2 fexes, maybe a hive tyrant. The game will most likely be straight annihilation.

Below is a list of what I'm fielding with a description of my intensions. I'm looking for thoughts, comments, and possible changes.

83 - Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (power armor, psyker/force sword, psychotroke)
60 - (4) Death Cult Assassins
130 - Eversor Assassin
145 - Vindicare Assassin
205 - (5 )Term Squad (halbrerds, Justicar - mastercrafted)
205 - (5 )Term Squad (halbrerds, Justicar - mastercrafted)
170 - (5) Interceptor Squad (3 halberds, power sword, incinerator)

My plan is to use the Eversor to charge ahead and assault any warriors allowing some time for my inquisitor and DCAs to join in. Not sure what to do with my Vindicare other than take pot shots at whatever as support. Really unsure of what to do with my terminators. Would like to deep strike them but not sure I want to leave my assassins alone. The Interceptors will deep strike wherever they are needed. So basically there is no real plan. As you can see I'm really not sure what to do. 1000 points of GKs with limited models is tough. Thanks for any help.

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YoungAbraham
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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by YoungAbraham » Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:30 am

Hmm, very interesting. Just looking at the two codices, it seems like Grey Knights have a decent advantage going in, as any actual Grey Knight has no problem carving tyranids up in close combat. So much nids being a close-combat codex, I guess.

However, it seems like you have a pretty specific idea for how you want your army to flow, and it's got some stuff in it you'll have to use really well for it to be of much use against the nids. Let's see here... I'm going to assume he can get one hive tyrant, two fexes, six warriors, and twenty stealers in his army for 1000 points. Maybe that's a bit off, I don't know. I'm thinking the big guys will run down the center at you, and maybe 2 squads of stealers will be outflanking or otherwise trying to get you to focus elsewhere.

Looking at this set-up, I can't see much incentive for you to run at him with much of anything. I think you can probably outshoot him, as he has terrible saves, and you have 15ish storm bolters to shoot with. I guess pick off the stealers first, as they are the only thing that can strike as quickly as your horde of I6 power weapons ( Vindicare can snipe the broodlord! yay!). Then once the big guys lumber towards you, just get in to positions where you outnumber him, rather than vice versa. I think 5 terminators is more than a match for his carnifex, provided you get the charge. If you toss in the eversor for good measure, or the death cult assassins, you should be pulling his big gribblies down no problem.

Oddly, I see the warriors being the most annoying thing for you to fight, as the three wounds makes them pretty durable unless you double them out. Any chance of getting some strength 8 in this army? If not, maybe just save them for later if you can, and take out the big guys and stealers first.

Honestly, I think that you have a pretty good shot going in to this match-up. Just don't let him hit you all at once!

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MasterCraft
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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by MasterCraft » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:28 am

Thanks Abe! I figure the GKs should be able to win over tyranids I'm just not sure I'm as skilled a player to get the battle to go my way. Should I be relying on deep strike at all seeing as there are so few models? Maybe just hold up and have them come to me.

Unfortunately I have no high strength weapons yet.

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YoungAbraham
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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by YoungAbraham » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:32 am

MasterCraft wrote:Thanks Abe! I figure the GKs should be able to win over tyranids I'm just not sure I'm as skilled a player to get the battle to go my way. Should I be relying on deep strike at all seeing as there are so few models? Maybe just hold up and have them come to me.

Unfortunately I have no high strength weapons yet.
Ha, I actually had to edit my original post, because I realized I sounded pretty cocky, despite the fact that my last game was months ago, and I have never actually played against Grey Knights. Oh, what an armchair general am I.

I would say no deepstrike, as it's just something that can go wrong ( unless you really need to snag objectives or something?) I think against armies like the nids, you want to castle up and pick away at him. If you deepstrike in, you're attacking piecemeal, and allowing him to choose CC match-ups. Better to be the one doing the charging!

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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by Skip » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:24 pm

Greetings and always good see another Grey Knight player!
I cannot really help out give any advice on top of what what has already been suggested here concerning what you currently have available- but I can give you some pointers to what I have had work for me in the past/ some suggestions for the future.

Dreadnoughts: The dreaded dakka dreads are fantastic against the Nids. Using str 8 ap4 will double out those pesky three wound warriors. Also keep in mind the reinforced aegis that the Dreadnoughts have which will basically create a 12' bubble that will force enemy psykers to have - 4 ldr when they try to cast something against a GK unit with Aegis (aka dreads and GK's). This is the bane of Zoanthropes and Eldar alike.

Psycannons & Psycannon ammunition: Psycannons can do an amazing job with tearing up big bugs- a few lucky rends here and there can make the difference between keeping the enemy at bay and getting assaulted. Psycannon ammo is greatly useful with making every shot count that much more- making the weapons str 5 means that you'll be able to wound the big bugs even easier too. Although with the hefty cost of the upgrade I would suggest limiting it to squads of 7 or more.

Halberds vs Hammers: Using hammers is traditionally great way to deal with big bugs and tanks. I would greatly suggest using a hammer on every justicar- much like the fabled power fist on every sarge in other SM armies. Halberds are amazing and I would suggest using them on terminators every time- getting that I6 power weapon means that often you'll strike first against any Nid that attacks you- taking down their number advantage a bit before they get to swing at you.

The Holy Hand Grenades: A dirty trick that I've been picking up are the fabled grenades that GK's have access to. I would greatly suggest using Rad grenades and the one that has the random effect (I cannot forget the name). With the rad grenades you'll be lower the enemies T by one. Now that may not seem like a huge deal from the offset- but remember you can boost your squads str by one with the justicar- and by one if you have another character like a GM attached. This means that you'll be able to double out almost everything but big bugs with str 6 power weapons- and with halberds this is often before the enemy can even swing. Where this comes into play with bugs is that your hammer will be str 10 against T 5- just enough to double out a Carnifex or anything else that is thrown your way.

Grand Master vs. Draigo: Draigo is great if your thinking about using Paladins as a troops choice, but otherwise your points can be better spent elsewhere. Try out a Grand Master with a halberd and a few grenades and you'll be hooked. His grand strategy ability can make Dreadnoughts scoring- or even Dread Knights! Also if your playing only annihilation/ kill points you may want to look giving different units counter-attack. This will make any assault against your GK units far more dangerous for any advancing Nid army- and will help you to play a bit more defensively.


I hope that this helps, these are some lessons that I have learned facing off against the local Nid players in the area.

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iBambam
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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by iBambam » Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:34 am

You really should have no trouble going up against Nids with Grey Knights. Your Halberd Terminators should be able to take care of pretty much anything. My only suggestion with them is bringing a Psycannon, and giving the Justicar a Deamon Hammer. With the Deamon Hammer you can pretty much insta-kill anything he throws at you if the halberds don't do it first. That's where Nids really suffer against GK. Since they have no invulnerable saves their big bugs die very, very easily. Keep that in mind. Don't be afraid of a close combat with his Tyrant or Fex's with your Terminators, you should win relatively easily.

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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by MasterCraft » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:04 pm

Where this comes into play with bugs is that your hammer will be str 10 against T 5- just enough to double out a Carnifex or anything else that is thrown your way.
I thought you couldn't double out a fex?

Actually the game was postponed to this weekend and I'm about to finish a purgation squad of psycannons. I would assume taking this over the interceptors would be wise seeing as it's pretty much the same points cost.

Thanks for all your suggestions. Not sweating the battle so much.

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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by iBambam » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:12 am

Yes! Having a purgation squad will help out immensely against Nids. And you cannot double out a fex as he's T-6

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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by MasterCraft » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:59 pm

For anyone who cares... here's a quick recap of the battle.

Actually got to play 1250pts, just not on a regular table. I played on a smaller (kitchen) table with no terrain (civil war style). Because the table was about 3ft (short edge) and 5ft (long), we started deployment within 6" on the short.

Tyranids got first turn and basically I was facing about 8 warriors, 1 Hive Tyrant, under 10 devigaunts, 1 trygon, and about 15 gene stealers. Nids didn't do much this turn and I was able to take out 3 Warriors with a purgation squad and a Vindicare.

Second turn. Trygon appears and so do his gene stealers on my right flank. Because the stealers came from the table edge they make the assault on my purgation squad, the squad goes down by end of my turn. I take a few pistol shots at the trygon with the eversor and vindicate taking him down to 4 wounds and then my inquisitor, DCAs, and eversor finish him off in cc. I also charge a squad of terminators at his Hive Tyrant and another squad at his 2 warriors that remain in the squad. End up losing a terminator from perils (hammer hand). All the big guys had synapse so it made it hard to pass those tests.

Third. Terminators take out the 2 warriors but at the cost of just 1 (3 left), which joins the other Terminator fight. However, the other squad is down to 1 as a result of the remaining 3 warriors (with their bone swords) from the left joining combat. Gene stealers charge inquisitor and DCAs and kill 3 DCAs. Eversor joins and takes out half the stealers, he dies but they break.

Fourth. Interceptors join, kill last devigaunt. Terminators manage to kill the last 3 warriors and Tyrant finishes off the terminators. Vindicare joins the inquisitor. Because the Tyrant is heading to the interceptors now I shunt them to the other side of the table to join the inquisitor. I join the inquisitor with the interceptors.

Five. The Tyrant charges into combat. He kills them but at the cost of 3 wounds, he is down to one. Oh I've been moving my vindicate to the other side of the table so when the Tyrant is done he heads towards him. In this time the vindicare misses a shot and the tyrant regenerates a wound. Next turn vindicate is dead. However, I manage to turbo penetrate him and I pull out the win.

So, not a normal game of 40k but a good chance to see what the Grey Knights got. One of the issues I came across was the Hive Tyrant. He's real tough when he's got his lash whip, which brings initiatives down to 1. That got me thinking, If I were to use Crowe, would I be able to still use his rapier strike ability that makes all his hits initiative 10? Something tells me no but it seems to be 2 special rules that counteract each other.

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Re: Advice: Grey Knights vs Tyranids 1000pts

Post by iBambam » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:06 am

I believe that Crowe would hit at initiative 10 still. You shouldn't have had any problem with the Tyrant, you needed to only wound him once and then activate your nemesis force weapons as he has no invulnerable save. While casting hammerhand is appealing it is not always the best decision to make, especially against MC's. All in all though as long as you had fun that's all that matters!

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