Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

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Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by cvtuttle » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:43 am

Episode 145 of The Independent Characters takes a close look at conflicts within gaming groups. This isn’t a show about how to deal with ‘that guy’ at a tournament, but an episode we hope helps address problems in groups that have long standing relationships.

We have all witnessed poor behavior while gaming. However, when it is friends or communities impacted by this type of behavior when do you say something? And more importantly what do you say? Hopefully this episode shines some light on a complex and difficult topic.

We are lucky enough to get Jason Mullins from the Sons of Heresy Podcast onboard to talk with us about the main topic of the show as well! Make sure you check out his new show.

We also have two quick interviews. The first with Caleb and Kat of CK Studios. We talk about the upcoming airbrushing class they are doing in the Bay Area and all about their studio and outlook on painting and the hobby. This is followed up by an interview with Adam ‘Loopy’ Fasoldt from the Masters of The Forge Podcast. We go into the results of The Independent Characters 2016 Hobby Progress Challenge, which he has been kind enough to spearhead for us over the last two years.

There is a slight sound issue towards the end of the Hobby Progress segment. We think we might have an issue with our soundboard and are going to replace it. Fortunately it doesn’t impact the rest of the show and isn’t too terrible. Please bear with us. We hope you enjoy the show!
http://theindependentcharacters.com/blog/?p=3813

Also - forgot to include the link to Jordans story in the show notes - here it is:

https://omny.fm/shows/story-club/7-3-jo ... ammer-time
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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by Gunzhard » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:49 pm

Well first, cool to hear you guys are reading the Expanse books... I read the first 5 in the time it took me to force myself halfway through Fear to Tread; they are fun reads. And thanks guys for the BL recommendations, after I (finally) finished Fear to Tread I quickly devoured No Know Fear, which was amazing, and I'm almost done with Angel Exterminatus which I am really enjoying as well. I am so tempted to skip right to Master of Mankind but I may try to read a few other books first.

Your main topic here, ugh, kind of made me a little paranoid; am I that guy and I don't know it?!? ...I don't think so heh ...but maybe?! ...nah! ...but hmm? :) ...I'll say this, you certainly forced some introspection which is likely a good thing. I realize I should learn the rules better and probably make some slightly more competitive lists to give folks a better challenge; and finally get the darn army fully painted! My primary group is more or less casual/narrative, some very talented painters, but they also sometimes play at events/tournaments. Mostly we have fun and drink, paint, drink, play and drink, and I've never really witnessed "conflict" but it would be good to know that everyone is having as much fun as possible.

Caleb's classes sound really cool, I hope he makes it to Boston eventually. He mentioned Mathieu Fontaine and I wonder if that is where he started his airbrushing? ...I took a class with Mathieu almost 10 years ago, he is an amazing teacher btw and a great guy; I started airbrushing then, yet I still only use the airbrush primarily for very simple tasks. It would be nice to learn some more advanced techniques.

Anyway, thanks for the show guys!

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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by cvtuttle » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:23 pm

Gunzhard wrote:Well first, cool to hear you guys are reading the Expanse books... I read the first 5 in the time it took me to force myself halfway through Fear to Tread; they are fun reads. And thanks guys for the BL recommendations, after I (finally) finished Fear to Tread I quickly devoured No Know Fear, which was amazing, and I'm almost done with Angel Exterminatus which I am really enjoying as well. I am so tempted to skip right to Master of Mankind but I may try to read a few other books first.

Your main topic here, ugh, kind of made me a little paranoid; am I that guy and I don't know it?!? ...I don't think so heh ...but maybe?! ...nah! ...but hmm? :) ...I'll say this, you certainly forced some introspection which is likely a good thing. I realize I should learn the rules better and probably make some slightly more competitive lists to give folks a better challenge; and finally get the darn army fully painted! My primary group is more or less casual/narrative, some very talented painters, but they also sometimes play at events/tournaments. Mostly we have fun and drink, paint, drink, play and drink, and I've never really witnessed "conflict" but it would be good to know that everyone is having as much fun as possible.

Caleb's classes sound really cool, I hope he makes it to Boston eventually. He mentioned Mathieu Fontaine and I wonder if that is where he started his airbrushing? ...I took a class with Mathieu almost 10 years ago, he is an amazing teacher btw and a great guy; I started airbrushing then, yet I still only use the airbrush primarily for very simple tasks. It would be nice to learn some more advanced techniques.

Anyway, thanks for the show guys!
Great post. Thanks for listening. I have heard nothing but positive things about Mathieu Fontaines classes as well.
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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by Adan » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:27 pm

Someone on the Facebook page made an excellent point about clubs & setting expectations. Having written guidelines and expectations are a great basis for some of the difficult discussions. It's much easier if the person is doing "A" and the group rules prohibit that.
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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by cvtuttle » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:29 pm

Adan wrote:Someone on the Facebook page made an excellent point about clubs & setting expectations. Having written guidelines and expectations are a great basis for some of the difficult discussions. It's much easier if the person is doing "A" and the group rules prohibit that.
Yeah - then it becomes the leaders job to pull the trigger on the decision.
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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by Berman » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:08 am

I dunno, seems like their is one legitimate reason to have a group that excludes certain types of people from your group.

Play with painted models or don't play at all!

Ok seriously now. Great listen to for anyone facing these issues and how to rationally lay out options and choose the best path. I've been fortunate enough to get along with most any player, it all comes back to having a pregame conversation. 99% of issues can be solved over by understanding what kind of player you are and finding out what kind of player your opponent is and bringing one or both of you to match that kind of play. I tend to use army/list selection as a way to bring parity. Locally I'm a big fish in a little pond. So when playing our areas painting and hobby guys I bring in optimized weak codexs so I can still play hard but give a fair game. Also, comment on play skill if that's what your opponent likes, if its hobby then comment on their models.

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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by IntotheGloam » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:51 pm

Hey guys, I've been greatly enjoying the podcast. You have inspired me to really dive into the hobby and Carl has replaced Joe Rogan as my co-pilot on holiday road trips. I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate your passion and positivity, so thank you for that!

On December 7th I saw your post on facebook about the airbrush classes and my Brother and I immediately decided we would go. From the post it was difficult to ascertain how one was supposed to sign up. The one comment on the event was someone else asking the same question, how to sign up, but there was no answer. I visited your website but didn't see any info there. I then called Game Kastle, but their event coordinators didn't know how to sign up either. Both my Brother and I marked ourselves as "going", but it turned out that this was insufficient. I have to admit we were pretty crestfallen when we heard on the podcast that the event was sold out. We had both planned a mini-vacation around the event, got airbrushes, got time off work, convinced our wives to go and put off painting our armies so that after the lesson we could do them justice.

I don't mean to put this all on you guys, I just want to communicate our interest and perhaps make a few suggestions for how we both could avoid this sort of miscommunication in the future:

1. I should have emailed you directly from the start.
2. If you are promoting an event through facebook, perhaps include information for how to register and then moderate inquiries on that forum.
3. Communicate with the Game Kastle event staff so that they can help you coordinate the event.

I realize that organizing all this is not your full time job. You all have families and professions and the podcast is something you do because you love it. The event was still many months out and I think we were both surprised at the level of interest it generated. You had mentioned that you were looking at possibly putting on a second class some time in the future and my Brother and I will be first in line. You have greatly contributed to our mutual enjoyment of this wonderful hobby and for that I am tremendously grateful!

Best Wishes,

Joe

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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by cvtuttle » Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:28 pm

IntotheGloam wrote:Hey guys, I've been greatly enjoying the podcast. You have inspired me to really dive into the hobby and Carl has replaced Joe Rogan as my co-pilot on holiday road trips. I can't emphasize enough how much I appreciate your passion and positivity, so thank you for that!

On December 7th I saw your post on facebook about the airbrush classes and my Brother and I immediately decided we would go. From the post it was difficult to ascertain how one was supposed to sign up. The one comment on the event was someone else asking the same question, how to sign up, but there was no answer. I visited your website but didn't see any info there. I then called Game Kastle, but their event coordinators didn't know how to sign up either. Both my Brother and I marked ourselves as "going", but it turned out that this was insufficient. I have to admit we were pretty crestfallen when we heard on the podcast that the event was sold out. We had both planned a mini-vacation around the event, got airbrushes, got time off work, convinced our wives to go and put off painting our armies so that after the lesson we could do them justice.

I don't mean to put this all on you guys, I just want to communicate our interest and perhaps make a few suggestions for how we both could avoid this sort of miscommunication in the future:

1. I should have emailed you directly from the start.
2. If you are promoting an event through facebook, perhaps include information for how to register and then moderate inquiries on that forum.
3. Communicate with the Game Kastle event staff so that they can help you coordinate the event.

I realize that organizing all this is not your full time job. You all have families and professions and the podcast is something you do because you love it. The event was still many months out and I think we were both surprised at the level of interest it generated. You had mentioned that you were looking at possibly putting on a second class some time in the future and my Brother and I will be first in line. You have greatly contributed to our mutual enjoyment of this wonderful hobby and for that I am tremendously grateful!

Best Wishes,

Joe

All fair points Joe - the reality is the class sold out before we anticipated it as well. However there is going to be ANOTHER class in April. I will get you all the details on that directly.
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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by IntotheGloam » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:20 pm

Thanks Carl, I really appreciate it! In fact my Brother and I just signed up for the April class! For anyone else wanting to get in before this one sells out too, just go to the facebook page of CK Studios and you can purchase tickets there ;)

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Re: Episode 145 - Conflict in Gaming Groups

Post by Fomite » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:06 am

I went to a class Caleb did at the LVO last year, and as I had to duck out early (the narrative event started early) and was going to miss "the most important part" (i.e. how thin your paint should be) he told me to find him later for a chat.

Ended up with the formula I used for my Imperial Fists. He's a great guy - looks like he has a couple courses I may be able to make later in the year.

On the topic of the conflict thing, I want to thank you guys for touching on both sexual harassment and rude/Xist, etc. comments. I feel like these are particularly important due to both some unfortunate stereotypes about our hobby, but beyond that, because they're excluding people. Arguing about rules, or bringing a face-stomping list etc. can ruin a game, but language and actions like that carry much more of a "You, and people like you, aren't welcome here" feeling to them that's just toxic.

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