Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

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Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

Post by cvtuttle » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:19 pm

Episode 141 of The Independent Characters addresses the thirteen black crusades of Abaddon!

For years people have maligned the leader of Chaos as a failure. We are here to tell you that is not the case. This episode, in honor of the release of Traitors Hate, we take a close look at the 12 previous Black Crusades led by the chosen of Chaos and then take a deep long look at the 13th Black Crusade.

We apologize (again!) for the delays in getting the show out, but Carl was in the hospital for dehydration as a result of the stomach flu. We are back though. Our next episode is already scheduled for recording, so we shouldn’t have any more delays. We hope you enjoy the show!
Carl Tuttle
Host of The Independent Characters

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Re: Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

Post by Wayward » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Hi Guys,

Great episode. Regarding the question Carl posed about the forums. I really love them in the first half of the year, after that it kind of settles down. I know my posting drops off around mid year when the initial HPC enthusiasm dies down.

And just my 2 cents for where 40k could go, if the Emperor dies. Magnus takes over. In an effort to repent for breaking the Emperors dreams of Humanity in the web way, Magnus either sits on the golden throne and creates a new astronomicon, or he finds a way for humanity to be able to use the webway. A massive change to the setting as the Emperor is dead, but nothing fundamental. The Imperium still exisits, the Imperial Navy still travels, the High Lords of Terra still run the show, the Imperium of Man is still on the brink of destruction and beset by all sides.

It also gives GW the ability to explore the religious repercussions of the God Emperor being dead. Do the Imperium cover it up. Do they spin it into propaganda (The Emperor made the ultimate sacrifice to save the Imperium). What happens do the Emperor, is he just dead, does he ascend to Godhood, does he get reborne? Lots of good story telling oppertunities for a post Emperor Imperium.

PS: Can you imagine how happy the Orks would have been when a Black Crusade, full of people to fight, just appears in their misdt? They must have been the happiest Orks in the galaxy.

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Re: Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

Post by Tallassarinus » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:01 pm

Sweet episode, guys!

One thing that struck me when Justin was talking about Abaddon's drunk driver (11th Crusade): The numbers are probably from the Imperial perspective, but might not match Abbadon's. Given that time works differently in the Warp, I was wondering if the 11th might have been bringing Abaddon into the future to see what the Imperium will turn into, how it fights against aggreesive, tough opponents, etc.

Since Wayward raised it, I can't resist thinking about life without the Astronomicon... Chaos fleets would probably be able to navigate (drunk daemons aside), but Imperial vessels might have to aggressively push into the Webway or bribe the Eldar/owe them a favour to get Imperial forces from A to B. The Imperium itself might fragment into mini-empires, each retaining ecclesiarchy elements (SoB), as well as their own regiments of PDF/IG.

Wayward - your Magnus theory is interesting... how does being a daemon prince of Tzeentch work with wanting to repent? Is Magnus a part of the God now, in the same way that all daemons are parts of their god but also separate (kind of)?
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Re: Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

Post by DanielC » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:02 am

Hi Guys,

Loved this episode!
A possible outcome of the XIII Black Crusade occurred to me.
The Golden Throne is captued, & among other things a Dark Astronoimcon is instituted.
The Goal of the Imperium becomes the rescue of the Emperor.
The Emperor, now in The Eye of Terror is more physically in peril but actually better able to fight Chaos on the highest levels. Perhaps White Crusades into The Eye are required, the Chapter system no longer serves & Legions are reconstituted . I don't know the rules of Regicide but I'm guessing you can kill the King. It would be a cool irony if a Chess type move was required of Abaddon.
Just some thought.
Cheers, Dan
PS Perhaps in the warp the Chaos Codex is only a month old.

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Re: Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

Post by Fomite » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:16 pm

Great episode guys!

I think one of the biggest issues I have with the Black Crusades are two-fold:

1. GW's writing has a serious problem with "Show, don't Tell", and that's what ends up with everyone feeling like Abaddon loses them all. They've done a better job recently with it, but I think the feeling has stuck.

2. Kind of along the same lines, I dislike that the solution has been "Ha! It was planned all along!" - it's both a cheap way out, and really more than a bit deprotagonizing to the Imperium as well - no matter what you do, there's a "Just as Planned!" explanation for how Abaddon Really Didn't Lose (tm). This happened in Traitor's Hate again - "The Imperium wins, but just barely and in an unsustainable way" is pretty much the conclusion of all 40K plotlines, and more than a little stale. There's ways to manage the whole grimdark thing beyond that.

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Re: Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

Post by Guardsman Lowe » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:34 am

Enjoyed this episode and also got a laugh out of the Princess Bride reference that was dropped

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Re: Episode 141 - Exploring The Black Crusades

Post by Adan » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:07 pm

DanielC wrote:PS Perhaps in the warp the Chaos Codex is only a month old.
Ha! This made me chuckle.
Guardsman Lowe wrote:Enjoyed this episode and also got a laugh out of the Princess Bride reference that was dropped
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